Two Interviews With Sen. Bennett on Immigration

In a radio interview with Sen. Bob Bennett, when asked about Pres. Bush's State of the Union mention of "North American Summit of Canada, Mexico, and the United States in the great city of New Orleans" as part of the NAU/SPP; he responded "There is no North American Union."

This is better heard in person (link below); here are a few more paraphrased notes:

Q. What about SPP? A. "I don't know what that stands for." A. I never hear anybody talking about it, but I read about in the John Birch Society literature. NAU Highway - Total nonsense

Q. Illegal solution A. we're paralyzed at the federal level for action

Q. What do we do? A. Border fence is working - people are suggesting shooting people on the border. You aren't going to gain control secure the border without allowing temp workers.(support high fence and electronics) Every one says fence is working, crops are rotting. Need guest workers Need Bio ID for immigrant

Q. funding for fence A. many dollars allocated Complaints that it is working. labor unions oppose

Q. what if employee says I'm a citizen? A. everyone hates concept, but we need National ID card Drivers license already is, but we need tamper proof.

Q. Bottom line no fixes for four years A. that's pessimistic I supported comprehensive reform - new president and congress need to deal it.

30 Jan Interview:

Get this widget | Track details | eSnips Social DNA

An earlier interview (6/14/07) with Sen. Bennett on immigration

Get this widget | Track details | eSnips Social DNA

HB 241 passes out of Committee

HB 241 passed favorably out of the Education Committee

HB 241 Committee hearing audio is worth a listen. The HB 241 discussion starts at 55:30 (32 min total)

Here are brief notes of that discussion (Don't take my word for it - listen!) (My comments in **italics**)

Rep. Donnelson intro: Reviewed federal law requires ALL non residents to receive the same tuition, IF illegals are given in. $34 million potential penalty to the state of Utah Download Testimony of Prof. Kris Kobach before Utah legislative committe last year.

Federal Law Title 8, Chapter 14, Sec. 1623 states, "an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State ... for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit."

Graduates (illegals) unable to get jobs as illegals after degree per federal law, (Title 8, 1324a)

Committee Questions (Q.) and Donnelson Answer (A.)

• Q. How many illegal students using A.180 - 200 (**see below number is 280**)
• Q. What consequence of filing an affidavit to be use instate tuition. A. Signing admits illegality and can be further cause for deportation
• Q. What is the cost of the bottomless pit for educating illegals A. That's a Romney quote, not mine
  

(**Utah did an audit study in 2007 entitled "A Review of the Public Education Costs of Undocumented Children" concluding "For fiscal year 2006, we estimate that between $54.9 million and $85.4 million of state and local expenditures went toward the public education of undocumented children. This estimated expenditure range excludes federal funding. This cost range can be separated into grades K- 8 and grades 9-12. These two cost allocations are shown below as well as the total cost allocations when federal money is added." While only the K12 costs were analyzed it indicates the magnitude of the problem.**)


Public Comments: Five for and Five against, 1 min ea.

FOR Becky Watson facetiously, illegals should be incarcerated and paid $.90/hr (**reference to previous bill HB0086 **)

ANTI Chris Gambrelis (Ivory Homes) (**at time 1:11**) several Chamber resolutions in opposition - examples showed immigration system needs to big fixed - punitive cost for education sends wrong message, anti business - immigration affects everyone - The "state acting out of step is counter productive to citizens and the state as a whole" (near quote - why is obeying federal employee law counter productive to citizens - except those who hire them?)

FOR Eli Cawley Minutemen HB 241 does not keep illegals from getting an education, they just have to pay what other aliens pay - our adversaries complain that fedgov should correct, but they now maintain that the state should favor illegals - Where's the compassion for citizens? ( and others who are trying to immigrate LEGALLY)

ANTI ?? U of U diversity officer - on future hiring, this is an education committee not hiring. - You just supported incarcerated individuals, as an investment in the future - undocumenteds can contribute as well as can prisoners - there have NO legal challenge successes (**YET, but why take the chance?**)

(**You didn't know about the U of U Diversity Office? Octavio Villalpando, $81,757; Ron Harris, M.D., $335,354; Theresa Martinez, Ph.D., $80,507 Salaries from utahsright.com Note the top annual U of U salary reported is $1,019,380 !!**)

FOR Dr. Ronald Mortenson grads ineligible to work, but ex-cons can - IF business hire illegals, they can not change visa status, grad is ineligible for legalization for 10 yrs, by accepting - Utah now a magnet state.

ANTI Jennifer Smith, United Way - supporting immigrant families - concern of impact on economy - foundation of economy is strong workforce - unintended consequences task force (** Hmm, what does this say about United Way?**)

FOR ?? Eagle Forum - re AZ Sen actions - UT encouraging illegals through benefits

ANTI Amanda Covington, UT Higher Ed - advocates Education for all - healthier, happier volunteers 280 students now using waiver (**thank you for that honest clarification**)

FOR Charlene Duke also favors Higher Ed - care about student, we should help them get LEGAL student visas - Why oppose Fed law - help student return to home country and return legally

ANTI Denise ? U of U Student on scholarship work 2 high schools, hard for illegal students, leaders, need financial assistance, follow dreams

Rep Painter: Move to pass, favorable recommendation


Rep. Moss; Opposed here we go again Email emotional, don't go be feeling pragmatic to oppose it'll COST the state money (**lost tuition - see fiscal note - if we make money on instate tuition, why NOT offer it to everyone? ) Asked students of their aspirations - some want to be lawyers to change the law - They don't want to be considered illegal any more (**that's understandable, help them leave and follow the law**) - they have no home - don't punish the helpless - Laws will be changed. (**Therefore, if you don't like a law, just ignore it and work for a change - civil disobedience - by NON-CITIZENS**)

Rep. Frank: before session I put out survey on illegals - I will have to support the views of my constituents. (**Stop the magnet for illegals**) - we are disadvantaging those who come legally

Chair Hughes - unintended consequences - federal law has caused them

Yeas - 8
Andersen, S.; Frank C.; Hughes, G.; Last, B.;
Newbold, M.; Painter, P.; Sumsion, K.; Urquhart, S.;
Nays - 5
Gowans, J.; Holdaway, K.; Moss, C.; Shurtliff, L.;
Wheatley, M.
Absent - 2
Dee, B.; Lockhart, R.

HB 98 Employer Verification Passes House

HB 98 Employer Verification was passed by the House today 54 -16 - 5

The Vote:

JANUARY 28, 2008
11:04:29 AM Utah Employment Verification Act
YEAS - 54
Aagard Draxler Hughes Noel
Allen Duckworth Hunsaker Oda
Andersen Dunnigan Hutchings Riesen
Barrus Ferry King Sandstrom
Bigelow Fisher, Julie Kiser Shurtliff
Bird Frank Last Snow
Bowman Froerer Lockhart Sumsion
Brown Garn Mascaro Tilton
Clark, D. Gibson Mathis Walker
Clark, S. Greenwood Menlove Webb
Daw Grover Morgan Wimmer
Dee Harper Morley Curtis
Donnelson Herrod Neuenschwander
Dougall Holdaway Newbold


NAYS - 16
Biskupski Fowlke Hendrickson Moss
Chavez-Houck Gowans Johnson Seelig
Cosgrove Hansen Litvack Wheatley
Fisher, Janice Hemingway McGee Wiley


ABSENT OR NOT VOTING - 5
McIff Ray Winn
Painter Urquhart

House Floor debate (21 min)

Minor point Some think that this Bill applies to ALL employers, HB98 only applies to:

(4) "Public employer" means:
60 (a) the state;
61 (b) a local government entity;
62 (c) an institution of higher education, as defined in Section 53B-3-102 ;
63 (d) an independent entity, as defined in Section 63E-1-102 ; and
64 (e) any of the following of an entity described in Subsections (4)(a) through (d):
65 (i) a department;
66 (ii) a division;
67 (iii) a commission;
68 (iv) a council;
69 (v) a board;
70 (vi) a bureau;
71 (vii) a committee;
72 (viii) an institution; or
73 (ix) an other entity, official, or employee.

SLC Chief Burbank on Illegal Alien enforcement

A little more on HB 237, (Illegal Immigration Enforcement Act) which passed out of the Law Enforcement Committee on Friday, SLC Chief Chris Burbank testified that 1/3 of Salt Lake's population were "minorities" and that he feared that passing this bill (requiring training for Utah State Police and ALLOWING local entities to receive similar training) would inhibit his ability to 'protect' the community and would NOT be used by SLC. He said the bill has huge fiscal costs for jails. SLC Crime stats

He indicated there were not enough ICE (Immigration and Custom Enforcement) officials to process the illegals. (Probably true, but this bill would HELP in enforcing and assisting ICE. His erroneous understanding seemed to have been that these train officers would be ICE 'deputies.' The Section 287 (g) "permit(s) designated officers to perform immigration law enforcement functions . . . (who are) working in conjunction with ICE allows these local and state officers: necessary resources and latitude to pursue investigations relating to violent crimes, human smuggling, gang/organized crime activity, sexual-related offenses, narcotics smuggling and money laundering; and increased resources and support in more remote geographical locations.")

He also indicated that it would lead to Racial Profiling by the police (Personally I have more faith in Utah law enforcement officers) and could destroy the 'trust' of the illegal alien community and limit their request for protection and intervention from local police. (When did 'illegal alien' become a RACE?)

He indicated there was not enough jail space to incarcerate illegals. When queried by Rep. Brad Dee if he was saying we shouldn't enforce the law because we don't have jail space; Chief Burbank (non)responded that local officers should serve and protect the community. Rep. Dee followed with the statement that SLCity does not even have a jail and that if SLC does not want to participate they don;t have to. The Chief responded that if one jurisdiction does participate then the illegals perceive all of the police as potential deportation threats and their (quote) "equal access to government will be eroded." Rep. Dee noted the overwhelming support of Utahns for something to be done.

Rep. Litvack gave an emotional plea to vote AGAINST the bill and to protect the illegals.
The Bill passed out of committee by a 7-3-1 vote.

Audio of the HB 237 hearing can be found at http://www.le.state.ut.us/asp/interim/Commit.asp?Year=2008&Com=HSTLAW The very interesting commentary by SLC Chief Burbank starts at 1:24:30 - Rep. Litvack summation at 1:42

News Reports of the Hearing:
SL Trib ICE busts not for us, says SLC top cop
DNews 3 of 4 migrant bills push through

Bill Progress Update

Two bills on the list were passed (one held) out of committee today:

HB 95 1st Substitute - Document Fraud - Establishing Legal Status (Morgan, K.) was passed out to the House unanimously. The original Bill HB 95 had a "a civil penalty of up to $75,000 that was regrettably removed. The Substitute bill sets up a "creates a Document Fraud-Identity Theft Unit" with a funding of $275K.

HB0262 Recovery of Federal Reimbursement for Costs Associated with Illegal Immigrants was basically killed by the sponsor, Rep. Karen Morgan, as not necessary because other studies had been done studying the cost of illegal aliens. I'm not sure which study but CAIRCO has one.

Here a a "few" more:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html In Utah, an audit reported: "...between $54.9 million and $85.4 million of state and local expenditures went toward the public education of undocumented children...." http://le.utah.gov/audit/07_07rpt.pdf
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01html < http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html>
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml


HB 237 passed 7-3-1

House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee 1/25/2008 2:00:00 PM - Rm W025 Minutes
House Comm - Favorable Recommendation HB0237 - Illegal Immigration Enforcement Act

Yeas - 7 Bowman, D. Dee, B. Lockhart, R. Oda, C. Ray, P. Sumsion, K. Wimmer, C.

Nays - 3 Litvack, D. Seelig, J. Wiley, L.

Absent - 1 Morley, M.

Driver Privilege Card - AKA Illegal Alien ID card

• HB239 "repeals the use of a temporary identification number (ITIN) issued by the Internal Revenue Service for purposes of obtaining a driving privilege card issued by the Driver License Division;
  
• expires all driving privilege cards on December 31, 2008; increases from six to ten years the time period for which an applicant for a driver license must report a license suspension, cancellation, revocation, disqualification, or denial;
  
• prohibits the Driver License Division from issuing a driving privilege card; and makes technical changes.

History: The Driver Privilege Card was passed in 2005 by a straight party vote as a compromise to NOT give illegal aliens Licenses. Check out the floor debates for further information - (rather extensive)

The Utah Driver License says it requires proof of legal presence: but allows a "Matricular Consular/ID (issued in Utah only)" or a "Foreign Birth Certificate with Notarized Translation"

as Primary Identification and an "Out-of-Country Driver License" as secondary identification.

The Matricula card is issued to illegal aliens by the Mexican Consulate.

The Driver Privilege Card 'requires' an ITIN or SSN :

"Positive Identification - When you first apply for a Utah driving privilege card, you must provide proof of name, date and place of birth, resident address, legal presence, (If applicable), and proof of your social security number or ITIN number (individual tax identification number)."

The Internal Revenue Services issues ITIN's "An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX."

Note that the IRS states:

"Are ITINs valid for identification?
No. ITINs are not valid identification outside the tax system. Since ITINs are strictly for tax processing, IRS does not apply the same standards as agencies that provide genuine identity certification."

"Are ITINs valid for work purposes?
No. ITINs are for federal income tax purposes only. Getting an ITIN does not change your immigration status or your rightto work in the United States."

UT Legislative Audit on Illegal Aliens & Drivers Licenses

From the 2005 Legislative Audit on illegals and Licenses:

"The Legislative Auditor General was asked to identify the extent to which undocumented aliens are obtaining Utah’s driver licenses. We found that a large number of undocumented aliens has taken advantage of Utah’s relatively lenient requirements for obtaining a driver license. One concern is that Utah is being used as a portal for undocumented aliens living out of the state to obtain driver licenses. Furthermore, some undocumented aliens may be using the driver license application process to register to vote. Our findings are preliminary and a more extensive audit could be requested."

"Because U.S. citizens and legal foreign workers qualify for a Social Security Number, we have been told that those who file for an ITIN and who reside in the United States are, for the most part, undocumented aliens."

"Utah is Used as a Portal By Undocumented Aliens To Obtain a Driver License

We are concerned that dozens of licenses have been issued to individuals from the same addresses. For example, during the past 12 months, state records show that driver licenses have been issued to 62 different individuals who resided at the same apartment at the same street address in Salt Lake City."

"The agent (from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) indicated that these addresses are used by “contractors” who charge a fee for helping undocumented aliens obtain a Utah driver license. He said that most of the contractors work with undocumented aliens from outside of Utah. Because a Utah driver license is easier to obtain than those from many other states, Utah has Drivers License Issued to Undocumented Aliens become a portal through which undocumented aliens can obtain a widely accepted form of identification."

"Voter Registration List Includes 383 Individuals with ITINs, Most Appear To Be Undocumented Aliens"

Bill Particulars

HB26 This bill:

• amends the definition of "satisfactory evidence of identity" to provide that personal identification issued by another nation must be a passport
  
• and that a driving privilege card is not satisfactory evidence of identity;
  
• eliminates requirements for a notary's address to appear on the notary's seal;
• provides that a notary's change of address must be given to the lieutenant governor;
• and makes technical changes.

HB95 This bill

• prohibits a person from knowingly, intentionally, or recklessly forging, counterfeiting, altering, or falsely making or providing a document that unlawfully establishes legal status.
• prohibits a person or entity from forging, counterfeiting, altering, or falsely making or providing a document to unlawfully establish legal status and subjects a violator to a civil penalty of up to $75,000;
• provides that the Office of the Attorney General may bring a civil action against an individual who makes or provides a fraudulent document to unlawfully establish
  legal status; and
  
• provides that money collected in the civil action by the Office of the Attorney General shall be deposited in the Attorney General Litigation Fund to be used first for costs incurred in bringing these civil actions and then to be applied to individual victims.

HB98 This bill modifies provisions of the Labor Code in General to require certain employers
to participate in a federal program to verify the employment eligibility of employees.

This bill:

• enacts the Utah Employment Verification Act including: defining terms; addressing interpretation of the act; and providing for severability;
• requires public employer participation in the federal employment verification program;
• and requires recordkeeping by public employers of documentation required under the federal employment verification program.

HB237 This bill modifies the Public Safety Code by providing for the enforcement of federal immigration laws by certain state or local law enforcement officers.

HB239 This bill:
. repeals the use of a temporary identification number (ITIN) issued by the Internal
Revenue Service for purposes of obtaining a driving privilege card issued by the Driver License Division;
. expires all driving privilege cards on December 31, 2008;
. increases from six to ten years the time period for which an applicant for a driver license must report a license suspension, cancellation, revocation, disqualification, or denial;
. prohibits the Driver License Division from issuing a driving privilege card; and makes technical changes.

HB 241 This bill modifies eligibility criteria for an exemption from the nonresident portion of total tuition at a state institution of higher education.

HB 257 This bill modifies provisions related to state affairs in general by conditioning certain
economic incentives and procurement agreements on employer participation in a federal
employee eligibility verification program.

HB 262 This bill directs the attorney general to complete a study of all available remedies the state may have in seeking reimbursement from the federal government for costs incurred by the state resulting from illegal immigration.

HB 285 This bill:
. provides that the Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing may not issue a license to an applicant who is unlawfully present or unlawfully residing in the United States;
. requires the division to verify that an applicant for a professional license is lawfully present in the United States before issuing the license; and
. makes certain technical changes.

HB302 This bill enacts provisions related to determining the citizenship of an incarcerated
person by a law enforcement agency to assist a court in deciding whether the individual
may not be admitted to bail.

SB52 This bill:
. authorizes the court to order restitution to the victim of an identity fraud offense; and
. specifies that restitution related to an offense of identity fraud may include:
. attorney fees, lost wages, and other costs; and
. the victim's time involved in dealing with the offense, including administrative hearings and clearing the victim's record.

SB 97 This bill:
. provides for membership of the task force and compensation of members; . outlines the responsibilities and duties of the task force;
. provides for a final report to the Workforce Services and Community and Economic Development Interim Committee and the Business and Labor Interim Committee; and
. provides for staffing for the task force.