Tuesday, January 29, 2008

HB 241 passes out of Committee

HB 241 passed favorably out of the Education Committee

HB 241 Committee hearing audio is worth a listen. The HB 241 discussion starts at 55:30 (32 min total)
Here are brief notes of that discussion (Don't take my word for it - listen!) (My comments in **italics**)
Rep. Donnelson intro: Reviewed federal law requires ALL non residents to receive the same tuition, IF illegals are given in. $34 million potential penalty to the state of Utah Download Testimony of Prof. Kris Kobach before Utah legislative committe last year.

Federal Law Title 8, Chapter 14, Sec. 1623 states, "an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State ... for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit."

Graduates (illegals) unable to get jobs as illegals after degree per federal law, (Title 8, 1324a)
Committee Questions (Q.) and Donnelson Answer (A.)
  • Q. How many illegal students using A.180 - 200 (**see below number is 280**)
  • Q. What consequence of filing an affidavit to be use instate tuition. A. Signing admits illegality and can be further cause for deportation
  • Q. What is the cost of the bottomless pit for educating illegals A. That's a Romney quote, not mine

(**Utah did an audit study in 2007 entitled "A Review of the Public Education Costs of Undocumented Children" concluding "For fiscal year 2006, we estimate that between $54.9 million and $85.4 million of state and local expenditures went toward the public education of undocumented children. This estimated expenditure range excludes federal funding. This cost range can be separated into grades K- 8 and grades 9-12. These two cost allocations are shown below as well as the total cost allocations when federal money is added." While only the K12 costs were analyzed it indicates the magnitude of the problem.**)

Public Comments: Five for and Five against, 1 min ea.
FOR Becky Watson facetiously, illegals should be incarcerated and paid $.90/hr (**reference to previous bill HB0086 **)

ANTI Chris Gambrelis (Ivory Homes) (**at time 1:11**) several Chamber resolutions in opposition - examples showed immigration system needs to big fixed - punitive cost for education sends wrong message, anti business - immigration affects everyone - The "state acting out of step is counter productive to citizens and the state as a whole" (near quote - why is obeying federal employee law counter productive to citizens - except those who hire them?)

FOR Eli Cawley Minutemen HB 241 does not keep illegals from getting an education, they just have to pay what other aliens pay - our adversaries complain that fedgov should correct, but they now maintain that the state should favor illegals - Where's the compassion for citizens? ( and others who are trying to immigrate LEGALLY)

ANTI ?? U of U diversity officer - on future hiring, this is an education committee not hiring. - You just supported incarcerated individuals, as an investment in the future - undocumenteds can contribute as well as can prisoners - there have NO legal challenge successes (**YET, but why take the chance?**)

(**You didn't know about the U of U Diversity Office? Octavio Villalpando, $81,757; Ron Harris, M.D., $335,354; Theresa Martinez, Ph.D., $80,507
Salaries from utahsright.com Note the top annual U of U salary reported is $1,019,380 !!**)

FOR Dr. Ronald Mortenson grads ineligible to work, but ex-cons can - IF business hire illegals, they can not change visa status, grad is ineligible for legalization for 10 yrs, by accepting - Utah now a magnet state.

ANTI Jennifer Smith, United Way - supporting immigrant families - concern of impact on economy - foundation of economy is strong workforce - unintended consequences task force (** Hmm, what does this say about United Way?**)

?? Eagle Forum - re AZ Sen actions - UT encouraging illegals through benefits

ANTI Amanda Covington, UT Higher Ed - advocates Education for all - healthier, happier volunteers 280 students now using waiver (**thank you for that honest clarification**)

FOR Charlene Duke also favors Higher Ed - care about student, we should help them get LEGAL student visas - Why oppose Fed law - help student return to home country and return legally

ANTI Denise ? U of U Student on scholarship work 2 high schools, hard for illegal students, leaders, need financial assistance, follow dreams

Rep Painter: Move to pass, favorable recommendation

Rep. Moss; Opposed here we go again Email emotional, don't go be feeling pragmatic to oppose it'll COST the state money (**lost tuition - see fiscal note - if we make money on instate tuition, why NOT offer it to everyone? ) Asked students of their aspirations - some want to be lawyers to change the law - They don't want to be considered illegal any more (**that's understandable, help them leave and follow the law**) - they have no home - don't punish the helpless - Laws will be changed. (**Therefore, if you don't like a law, just ignore it and work for a change - civil disobedience - by NON-CITIZENS**)

Rep. Frank: before session I put out survey on illegals - I will have to support the views of my constituents. (**Stop the magnet for illegals**) - we are disadvantaging those who come legally

Chair Hughes - unintended consequences - federal law has caused them

Yeas - 8
Andersen, S.; Frank C.; Hughes, G.; Last, B.;
Newbold, M.; Painter, P.; Sumsion, K.; Urquhart, S.;
Nays - 5
Gowans, J.; Holdaway, K.; Moss, C.; Shurtliff, L.;
Wheatley, M.
Absent - 2
Dee, B.; Lockhart, R.

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